As protests spread, GOP Rep. Nancy Mace wants to defund ‘lawless’ cities
Republican Rep. Nancy Mace of South Carolina wants to take “every last federal dollar from cities who choose mob rule over law and order” through a bill she introduced this week in response to protests against immigration enforcement in Los Angeles.
“If you’re a city that sides with rioters or defunds the police or rejects help from the administration, those are the contours that you use to define lawlessness,” Mace told Morning Edition.
Los Angeles spent another night with a curfew in part of the city, though it’s been quieter than in recent days when people began to protest ramped up immigration enforcement in the city and surrounding areas. In a swift response to the protests, Trump signed a memorandum and deployed thousands of National Guard troops — and the Marines — to LA to protect federal facilities, ICE and other U.S. government personnel, the administration said.
Protests have spread to other cities, including Dallas, Chicago, Atlanta and Philadelphia. And Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth told Congress the administration wants to be prepared to send the National Guard elsewhere, if needed.
Trump sent National Guard troops to Los Angeles without the approval of California Gov. Gavin Newsom. Newsom and California Attorney General Rob Bonta filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration in response.
“It’s an illegal act. It’s immoral,” Newsom told All Things Considered. “It’s also unconstitutional, and the mobilization order that was sent to the guard has a statute that requires that it shall be issued through the governors of the states.”
Mace’s bill, the Lawless Cities Accountability Act, co-introduced this week by Rep. Brandon Gill, R-Texas, would block federal funding — including salaries and grants — for local officials in cities deemed “lawless” due to ongoing unrest or failure to enforce laws. It would also give the federal government, likely the U.S. attorney general and the administration, authority to determine which cities are considered “lawless.”
Mace spoke to NPR’s Steve Inskeep about her bill and the ongoing protests in Los Angeles.
The following exchange has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Interview Highlights
Steve Inskeep: So I’ve read your proposal. The idea is to cut funding for 180 days, six months or so, if a city or state blocks police from stopping riots or defunds law enforcement or rejects federal assistance during widespread violence. Why would that be needed?
Rep. Nancy Mace: I think we all saw the images in LA this weekend and we saw Mayor Karen Bass and Gov. Gavin Newsom, you know, deny what was happening. And you saw people burning cars in the streets, attacking law enforcement. There was a dead body in the street during massive looting in L.A., sort of like the riots a few years ago, where these Antifa folks or Black Lives Matter were trying to burn cities down. We just can’t have this kind of lawlessness. We have to be a country of laws. People have to follow the law.
Note: Los Angeles Police found a man’s body early Tuesday morning in an area where protests occurred, but did not say whether the man’s death was related to the protests or the looting of a store nearby, according to local TV news station KTLA.
Inskeep: Just so we’re clear, we did have some burned cars and so forth. Los Angeles authorities argued that they were on this and the police were in the streets. Does Los Angeles, then, in your opinion, qualify as a lawless city that should have had its funding cut?
Mace: Last weekend if it had continued, I would say yes, but it seems like in the footage from the last 24 to 48 hours, things have calmed down. It is a protest, not a violent riot. And they don’t seem to be attacking or killing anyone right now or burning things, and that’s the way that it should be if you want to protest. You can’t be violent in the streets and harm other people or their property, including their cars. And I don’t care if it was one car or 100 cars, it’s still wrong and it’s still violence.
Note: No deaths have been reported in relation to this week’s protests in LA, according to The Los Angeles Times.
Inskeep: You’re essentially saying the attorney general would decide a city is lawless or a state is lawless. Effectively, then the president or the president’s administration decides that someone is lawless. Would they alone get to decide what that word means?
Mace: Yeah, pretty much. I mean, we have the contours of it in the bill. So like if you’re a city that sides with rioters or defunds the police or rejects help from the administration, those are the contours that you use to define lawlessness. But, you know, we just can’t have this where, you know, there’s violence in the streets. They are accepting it as a peaceful protest when it’s not and people are getting harmed or their property is. We need to have tools in the toolbox to be able to say to these cities, no more. This needs to stop.
Inskeep: You probably know that the president has been accused of lawlessness. A fair number of judges, including his own appointees, have ruled against him for closing agencies that Congress had approved, firing people without notifying Congress as the law required, failing to give due process, on and on. Do you think that oversight is needed in that case?
Mace: I don’t think he can fire enough people, quite frankly. There are people in the administration and in these agencies and departments who are trying to block his agenda and what he’s trying to do, including his executive orders. I would not define — He has not supported violent riots and isn’t defunding the police and wants to help the people of California. So I don’t consider him lawless.
Inskeep: You don’t think that anything that he has done is beyond his authority as president?
Mace: I support Donald Trump 100%. I don’t think he can do enough. I think he needs to do more.
Obed Manuel edited the digital version.
Transcript:
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Los Angeles spent another night with a curfew in part of the city. It’s been quieter than in recent days, when protesters against the president’s immigration enforcement threw rocks and burned cars. President Trump sent in the California National Guard and the Marines. Protests have spread to other cities, such as Dallas, Chicago, Atlanta and Philadelphia. The defense secretary told Congress this week the administration wants to be prepared to send the National Guard elsewhere if needed. And Representative Nancy Mace, our next guest, has proposed legislation to cut federal funding to cities described as lawless. She’s a Republican from South Carolina. Welcome back to the program.
NANCY MACE: Good morning, and thank you.
INSKEEP: So I’ve read your proposal. The idea’s to cut funding for 180 days – six months or so – if a city or state blocks police from stopping riots or defunds law enforcement or rejects federal assistance during widespread violence. Why would that be needed?
MACE: Well, I mean, I think we all saw the images in LA this weekend. And we saw Mayor Karen Bass and Governor Gavin Newsom, you know, really deny what was happening. And we saw people burning cars in the streets, attacking law enforcement. There was a dead body in the street during massive looting in LA, sort of like the riots a few years ago, where these antifa folks or Black Lives Matter were trying to burn cities down. We just can’t have this kind of lawlessness. Like, we have to be a country of laws. People have to follow the law.
INSKEEP: Just so we’re clear, I mean, we did have some burned cars and so forth. Los Angeles authorities argued that they were on this and in the – police were in the streets. Does Los Angeles, then, in your opinion, qualify as a lawless city that should have had its funding…
MACE: A hundred – well…
INSKEEP: …Cut?
MACE: …Last weekend, if it had continued, I would say, yes. But it seems like, in the footage from the last 24 to 48 hours, things have calmed down. It is a protest, not a violent riot. And they are – doesn’t – they don’t seem to be attacking or killing anyone right now, or burning things, and that’s the way that it should be if you want to protest. You can’t be violent in the streets and harm other people or their property, including their cars. And I don’t care if it was one car or a hundred cars – it’s still wrong, and it’s still violence.
INSKEEP: I’m interested in the concept of this bill because you’re essentially saying the attorney general will decide a city is lawless or a state is lawless. Effectively, then the president or the president’s administration decides that someone is lawless. Would they alone get to decide what that word means?
MACE: Yeah, pretty much. I mean, we have the contours of it in the bill. So, like, if you’re a city that sides with rioters or defunds the police or rejects help from the administration, that is – those are the contours that you use to define lawlessness. But, you know, we just can’t have this, where, you know, there’s violence in the streets. They are accepting it as a peaceful protest when it’s not. And people are getting harmed, or their property is. We need to have tools in the toolbox to be able to say to these cities, no more. This needs to stop. Because what we saw last weekend was a governor and a mayor and others saying – and we even had Maxine Waters saying, I was there. This was a peaceful protest. We all know that it was not. And so you just can’t gaslight people, can’t have violence. You can’t hurt their property or hurt their person and just allow it to continue freely. This is not a thing…
INSKEEP: One question for you.
MACE: …Should not be a thing.
INSKEEP: I got you. One question that I have, though, is whether Congress would provide oversight if a president were to abuse that power. I mean, you could imagine a future president deciding that South Carolina’s lawless and cutting off funding to South Carolina. Do you have faith that Congress would provide oversight in that situation? I ask, knowing that you’re on the House Oversight Committee.
MACE: Well, I – yeah. Oversight – that is our jurisdiction. We have broad oversight powers in that regard. But with regards to South Carolina, we are not going to be a state who sides with rioters. We’re not going to be a state who defunds the police. And in fact, we had a sanctuary sheriff last year who lost her election because I communicated with voters what she was doing – letting illegals out who were rapists, murderers and pedophiles. And she lost her election in a very blue county that Kamala won. So my home state of South Carolina isn’t ever going to be a lawless state.
INSKEEP: Although you may have a president of the other party.
MACE: Well, we could, but I would hope that a president of either party would not allow this to go on. You just – you know, we as a people – one of the things I think is wrong with what’s happening in our country now, the polarization, is our inability to recognize the truth or recognize the problem. I mean, you literally had media last weekend, you had a governor, a mayor, a member of Congress denying what people were seeing with their own eyes on the camera.
INSKEEP: Let me just ask very quickly, if I can, in the minute that we have – you probably know that the president has been accused of lawlessness. A fair number of judges, including his own appointees, have ruled against him for closing agencies that Congress had approved, firing people without notifying Congress, as the law required, failing to give due process, on and on. Do you think that oversight is needed in that case?
MACE: I don’t think he can fire enough people, quite frankly. There are people in the administration and in these agencies and departments who are trying to block his agenda and what he’s trying to do, including his executive orders. I would not define where – he has not supported violent riots and doesn’t – isn’t defunding the police and wants to help the people of California. So I don’t consider him lawless.
INSKEEP: You don’t think that anything…
MACE: I support him.
INSKEEP: You don’t think that anything that he has done is beyond his authority as president up to now?
MACE: I support Donald Trump 100%, and I don’t think he can do enough. I think he needs to do more.
INSKEEP: Representative Nancy Mace of South Carolina, thanks for the time. Really appreciate it.
MACE: Thank you.
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