Dear Life Kit: I’m not sure about her sexuality. Should I try to kiss her anyway?

Transcript:

MARIELLE SEGARRA, HOST:

You’re listening to LIFE KIT…

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SEGARRA: …From NPR.

Hey, everybody. It’s Marielle. In romantic relationships, doubt can feel like a dirty word. If it’s love, true love, then you’ll just know it for certain. You’ll lock eyes – preferably across a crowded room, maybe on New Year’s Eve – and know that this person is the one for you.

HALEY NAHMAN: As if there’s some, like, mystical, like, judge who has a secret answer. There’s no secret answer.

SEGARRA: Haley Nahman is a culture writer and editor and author of “Maybe Baby,” a newsletter and weekly podcast about the mysteries of modern life.

NAHMAN: There’s just a set of circumstances that have upsides and downsides. And, like, if you happen to be in a relationship that has maybe a few more downsides than another hypothetical relationship you could be in, that doesn’t mean you – it’s wrong. Like, you could still choose it because it’s really meaningful to you.

DANNY NELSON: Right. Doubt in a relationship is, like, kind of the endless circle game of, like, attempting to figure out if what you’re doing is following your heart or just, like, reacting to your own paranoia.

SEGARRA: And this is Danny Nelson, Haley’s friend and co-host of “Dear Danny,” the “Maybe Baby” advice column where, similar to our show, they help readers and listeners with their thorniest love questions. Now, sometimes, Haley and Danny say, you’re in a romantic relationship and your doubts get louder and louder to the point where you cannot ignore them.

NAHMAN: Yeah, if you want to keep avoiding it, you’re going to have to, like, build more and more and more, like, protection against it. And you’re going to start to feel so false.

NELSON: Right – or work harder and harder. Like, you’re swimming against the current.

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SEGARRA: On this edition of Dear LIFE KIT, the advice series brought to you by reporter Andee Tagle, we’re talking about romantic doubt with Danny and Haley. They’ll answer listener questions about priorities and new relationships, about dealing with parents and old ones, about making a move on a friend and more.

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ANDEE TAGLE, BYLINE: So love and doubt, I wonder – just to get us warmed up – is that ever a good pairing, doubt in love? Is there room for doubt in our romantic relationships?

NELSON: Definitely. I’m trying to think if there was ever a time that I’ve been in love without experiencing doubt. What’s interesting about being in love is that it’s kind of like a faith-based endeavor. So you experience doubt kind of constantly in your life about everything, including your partner. And then, like, love is kind of like the reminder of something untouchable or ephemeral that you have to accept that it exists without proof.

NAHMAN: The more interesting question for me is always, like, what’s the source? The source of your doubt could be that you’re afraid of commitment, or, you know, you could have fleeting moments of doubt when, like, a certain part of your personality feels like it’s not being nourished in your relationship. And so you sort of make that feeling really big, and it makes you doubt the whole relationship, when really the response is, like, well, how can I nurture this outside the relationship or within it? I don’t think you have to accept feelings of doubt all the time. I think they’re kind of, like, an invitation, I think, to, like, reflect.

NELSON: Very true.

TAGLE: Yeah. Danny, Haley, I have no doubt this is going to be a fun one. I feel strongly about that. Thank you so much for being with us. Let’s get into these questions, shall we?

NAHMAN: Yes.

NELSON: Yeah.

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TAGLE: Question No. 1. Here we go.

(Reading) Dear LIFE KIT, I recently started talking with someone who I really like, and we’re talking about taking it slow. However, despite her busy lifestyle, she just got a big dog that has attachment issues and spends all her time and money on him now. I didn’t think I’d end up being jealous of a dog, but I find myself wishing she didn’t have him and we could focus on each other. It’s making me doubt whether she’s still available and open to a relationship. How do I stop being jealous of a pet? Should I just consider it a loss, cut ties and move on? Signed, Puppy Love.

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NELSON: It’s not like you’re jealous of a pet. It’s just very difficult to share space and time with an animal that needs constant attending to. It’s not like she’s there being like, oh, I wish I was the dog. I wish I had what the dog has. I mean, maybe – I don’t know…

TAGLE: (Laughter).

NELSON: …A little. Sometimes it’s nice to get pet.

TAGLE: (Laughter).

NELSON: But, like, I think that, like, she’s there basically just being like, this is actually, like, a tenuous moment when, like, reciprocation and reinforcement are really key in order to actually, like, get off the ground with somebody.

NAHMAN: My take is, does a dog suit your lifestyle? Are you attracted to this quality in this person that makes her really excited about tending to her dog and maybe giving up certain aspects of freedom – last-minute travel, going out super late and not having to go home. Like, do you mind? Does that suit you? In which case, I’d say you can get through this early period as long as you make sure to find time for each other and explain that you want to have that outside of the dog and work with it. But if it doesn’t really suit you, and you really don’t have that much of an attachment to this person, I think you can just sort of call it.

NELSON: Right.

NAHMAN: Danny, well, I can think of two close people in our lives who a dog has had an impact on their relationship in different ways.

NELSON: Oh, yeah, me too.

NAHMAN: So one got a really high-needs dog, and it just added a lot of stress to their relationship, and they ended up breaking up. And I have one who – he never wanted to get a dog because he wanted to be free and travel and stay out late – all the things I said. But I knew he loved dogs, and I felt like, actually, if you just sort of committed and, like, were willing to, like, be tied down a little bit, you might find a lot of depth and meaning in a relationship with an animal since I know how much you love animals. He finally meets somebody. She has a dog, and he’s obsessed. And it’s a really, really cute part of their relationship. They’re both obsessed with the dog. They get, like, little plates made that look like the dog. And he actually has found a lot of meaning in coming into a dog, even though he was sort of commitment-phobic about it before.

TAGLE: So what I’m hearing, like, it plays a significant role in a romantic relationship, and so you need to plan for that. And if Puppy Love wants to do this, should she just work on being less jealous of this pet? You know, like, what does that look like?

NELSON: I mean, if it were me, I’d just be like, I want a pat on the head, too. I want treats, too, you know?

TAGLE: Yeah.

NELSON: You’re always giving treats to the dog. What about yours truly?

NAHMAN: (Laughter) I guess my advice would be – you know, Puppy Love says, I find myself wishing she didn’t have him. I think that’s a place to start. It’s just sort of accepting that this is part of the package, finding the joy in it, giving it a shot without so much resistance and wishful thinking that’s not going to come true and finding ways of engaging, including the dog, that you think are really fun.

NELSON: Definitely. You know, a way to accept a dog into your life is, like, just to begin doing things for the dog.

NAHMAN: Care begets love. It’s not the other way around.

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TAGLE: All right. Question No. 2. Shall we?

(Reading) Dear LIFE KIT, I’m a 60-year-old widower and recently met a 52-year-old widow. We get along great, talk the same language, and seem to align well on values. The issue is that she’s widowed from her wife. I’m also widowed from my wife, who was with women before she met me. We don’t use the D word – dating – but our times together go on for hours, and we talk effortlessly. She’s smart as hell and equally as sarcastic as I am. We’ve told each other that we like each other and have expressed affection in nonphysical ways. I’m very open about people’s sexuality, and we’ve also briefly discussed sexuality, but I have no idea how fluid she may be, if at all. My dilemma is that I would like nothing better than to kiss her. I felt that at least a couple moments would have been perfect for that, yet I hesitated. I don’t want to chase her away. Part of me says I should wait until she makes a move. Part of me thinks we should talk. And part of me thinks I should wait for a good time and just gently, consensually try to initiate it. Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. Signed, More Than Friends.

I love it. OK, Haley, I love the smile on your face. Tell me your initial thoughts.

NAHMAN: Yes. I think this one’s so sweet. My dilemma is I would like nothing better than to kiss her. See, we’ve lost a lot of romance in the younger generations.

TAGLE: I know.

NAHMAN: (Laughter).

TAGLE: I know.

NAHMAN: OK. My first impression of this question is I don’t think a kiss is where to start here. I think he could say, I really enjoy being friends with you, but would you ever be down to go on a date with me, or is that not your thing? Like, it could just be as simple as that and easy as that.

NELSON: Definitely. But, like, before he does anything, he has to let go, honestly, of what the outcome will be if he wants to remain friends with this person. And, like, then I think it will be safe for him to move ahead ’cause he will evidently be open to maintaining kind of the relationship as it exists.

TAGLE: I hear you. I don’t know. I think that’s kind of risky. Have you ever, like, genuinely been friends with someone that you liked, and you tried to tell them and – or, like, any sort of unreciprocated situation, where you genuinely stayed friends with that person or that relationship stayed that close?

NAHMAN: I think that they’re at an age and experience level where they could weather something like this.

TAGLE: …Where we could get through it.

NAHMAN: I mean, you’re right. There’s always a risk. I guess maybe there’s always a risk with love or, like, putting yourself out there, but there’s a risk with not.

NELSON: You know, if he wants to pursue this and he wants to move ahead, and he actually treasures the friendship so much so that he doesn’t want to lose it, the first course of action is to come to terms in his own heart about the fact that, like, he’s completely OK remaining where they are now.

TAGLE: Yeah.

NELSON: I think if he can communicate directly from that place in himself, it will be sensed.

NAHMAN: Yeah. And I think – I mean, I think there’s room for a little humor. But it depends on his style.

NELSON: It depends on his style.

TAGLE: But, you know, they’ve seen a lot of life, and they can weather something like this.

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TAGLE: OK. Question 3. Let’s do it.

(Reading) Dear LIFE KIT, my partner of over six years and I are approaching our mid-30s, and we’re considering taking the next step together, getting married and having kids. While starting a family is something we both want in life, I am reluctant to commit to him because I can’t stand his family. They’re extremely rude to me and constantly belittle me, my background and my culture, like its food and cultural values, which is different from theirs. It’s extra difficult for me because my extended family does not live nearby, while my partner’s family does. They get together often. I just couldn’t imagine raising my kids in a mixed cultural household where their closest extended family doesn’t understand and celebrate their unique heritage. I’ve told him how I feel about the situation, and we both feel stuck. We feel that confronting his family would be awkward and drive a wedge between my partner and them, which is the last thing I want. I feel like the only options are to suck it up or move on. Signed, No Thanks Fam.

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NELSON: It’s curious to me to be with somebody for six years and be talking about starting a family and then be like, but, like, actually, his in-laws are so awful that maybe I should just break up and start all over. It feels like a really extreme response for such a long relationship and one that, like, you’re directly communicating about increasing the stakes in. It’s worthwhile to consider, like, if actually you are just having doubts in the relationship proper.

TAGLE: You’re saying, like, why now?

NAHMAN: Yeah. Like, I think it can be really painful for your in-laws to, like, not see you. And it can be really sad to give up a dream of what relationship you could have with them or what type of grandparents they might be. And I think that’s a real – that can be a real source of grief. But do I think it should break up an otherwise extra-solid relationship? I don’t think so. I mean, I think difficult in-laws is one of the most classic…

NELSON: It’s a trope.

NAHMAN: It’s one of the most classic downsides. And obviously, it’s a spectrum, but they’re not in your relationship.

NELSON: Right.

NAHMAN: My read of this is that the issue is with the partner. I think this is the partner’s responsibility.

TAGLE: Right.

NAHMAN: Deal with his family. Like, stand up for her. Tell them that they’re not going to have a relationship with their grandchildren if they don’t respect her.

NELSON: Like, especially thinking about having children with somebody, it’s important to really, like, believe that they will stand up for you…

TAGLE: Yeah.

NELSON: …And, like, for their own child. What you really are needing is, like, a show of solidarity from your partner with their family.

TAGLE: Yeah, or, you know, some – create some healthy boundaries maybe, you know? Like…

NELSON: Right – or something healthier than that (laughter).

TAGLE: Right. Yeah. I mean, you can – you know, she says that, like, his family gets together all the time. You know, do you have to go to every family gathering maybe? If this pair does decide to make it work, how can they set themselves up for success?

NAHMAN: Yeah. I think that she needs to be incredibly clear with her partner about these fears and doubts she’s having and really clear about what she needs him to do. And I think he needs to show up in a way that indicates to her that, like, she’s safe and that he absolutely hears her on everything she’s saying and agrees. Like, hopefully he sees it the same way. If she’s – if she feels belittled by him in any way, I think that’s, like, a different conversation. If you feel like, hey, this is my person – this is my teammate; this is who I want to start a family with and go through life with – then, yeah, I can’t imagine saying, well, I’m just going to ditch them because their parents are bigots, which of course would suck.

NELSON: Totally.

NAHMAN: Like, it would truly suck, and I think it would be really hard. But, yeah, I think everyone – there’s going to be challenges in every relationship. And I think all you can really ask is that you really feel like you’re on a team with your partner and that you feel really respected and that they’re hearing you and putting in effort to make you feel heard and known.

TAGLE: Yeah. So I’m hearing find the true source of your discomfort in this situation, and give your partner the opportunity to be on the same team. Give him the opportunity to rise to the occasion, and then go from there.

NAHMAN: Yeah. And this isn’t your burden to carry alone.

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TAGLE: All right. Question 4. Here we go.

(Reading) Dear LIFE KIT, this girl and I have been talking for nearly a month. I asked if she wanted to go on a date, and she said, I’m not saying no, and then proceeded to tell me she was still working on stuff caused by her last girlfriend. She said she wanted to get to know me more and see where it goes from there. She knows I like her, and I flirt often, but she never really reciprocates or comments on it. She did initially. We talk nearly every day. She’s hung out with me several times, and I think we get along well. She also initiates a lot of texting. I told her I really liked her and appreciated hanging out with her, and she said, likewise. But I feel like I’m noticing her slowly slipping away. Is this going anywhere? I’m afraid to ask her and make her feel rushed into a decision and end up saying no because of that, but I’m afraid of waiting for something that may never happen. What if she isn’t even into me? I don’t know what to do. Do I keep hanging out and not saying anything, or do I wait another month or two to say I want to go on a date? Should I just start preparing for this to end? Signed, head over heels.

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TAGLE: So total honesty here, we almost didn’t include this question because we were worried that the answer was a little too straightforward. There’s just so much if they wanted to, they would in the ether these days. And my friend, head over heels, I say this kindly – we’ve all been there. It just doesn’t seem like your love interest wants to or will.

NELSON: Yep. I mean, this is in no way meant to be cruel to the questioner because it’s a universal feeling and experience that, like, everyone has gone through, but this is a case of self-delusion. This person is not giving almost any of their energy to you, and they are only initiating, like, texting when they feel the need for some kind of vague affirmation.

NAHMAN: Yeah. I think for me it has more to do with just, like, self-respect. I’m not saying end the friendship with this person. But, you know, if you find yourself waiting around for somebody who’s not investing any time and energy, or worse, sort of sucking your energy, you can also just sort of say, hey, it’s not for me to wait around and feed that. And, like, if you’re making it clear that you’re interested and they know that and they’re sort of being hot and cold, they’re already aware of the power imbalance that’s going on here.

NELSON: For sure.

NAHMAN: And the only way you can sort of get your power back, I think, is to just recognize that, you know, you deserve reciprocation.

NELSON: Yeah. Like, they’re getting what they need from this right now. Whether or not, like, they consciously are thinking about the power dynamic or anything, which they likely probably aren’t, what’s at stake here, like Haley said, is your self-respect.

TAGLE: Yeah, absolutely. And I think you’re being a little more generous than I would be to this other person. Like, the fact that she started out by saying, I’m not saying no, feels a little bit like she knows exactly what she’s doing, too.

NELSON: Yeah, maybe so.

TAGLE: The thing about these kinds of situations is they’re so easy to see from the outside. But you swear it’s different when you’re the one being strung along, you know?

NELSON: For sure.

TAGLE: Any advice to offer for anyone who’s out there hoping beyond hope?

NELSON: It’s very rare that a partner is something to win like a prize.

NAHMAN: These are such formative relations, like, experiences, though. Like, these are the exact experiences that you need to help contrast with, like, the warm glow of reciprocity when you finally feel it.

TAGLE: What’s the best way to move on after this kind of hurt? You know, what’s the best way to shake it off?

NAHMAN: Refine your confidence, investing in people who are giving you the same energy you’re putting out and just sort of refill your cup.

NELSON: There’s only one way and it’s just to do exactly what Haley said and also let time pass.

NAHMAN: Yeah.

NELSON: It’s just like, it’s bad weather for now.

NAHMAN: Wait out the storm.

TAGLE: Danny, Haley, it has been an absolute pleasure. Before you leave, we ask every guest for their best piece of advice. I would love to hear each of yours. Anyone have anything to share to start?

NAHMAN: I tend to think of my emotions as problems to solve. And I think the best advice I’ve been given is to recognize that, sort of to what Danny just said, is that feelings are weather, and they’re meant to be experienced and moved through. And you don’t always need to apply intellectual rigor to understand them or to process them. All you have to do, all you owe them is acceptance and acknowledgment.

NELSON: That’s really beautiful. What’s my advice? Drive across the country.

NAHMAN: (Laughter).

NELSON: Leave your phone at home. Spend time by yourself.

NAHMAN: Absolutely.

NELSON: That’s my advice.

NAHMAN: Getting outside is huge.

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SEGARRA: That was LIFE KIT reporter Andee Tagle. For more LIFE KIT, check out our other episodes. We’ve got one on figuring out your attachment style and another on dealing with jealousy. You can find those at npr.org/lifekit. And if you love LIFE KIT and you just cannot get enough, subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org/lifekitnewsletter. Also, we love hearing from you. So if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share, email us at lifekit@npr.org.

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SEGARRA: This episode of LIFE KIT was produced by Margaret Cirino. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan, and our digital editor is Malaka Gharib. Meghan Keane is our supervising editor, and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Clare Marie Schneider, Sam Yellowhorse Kesler and Sylvie Douglis. Engineering support comes from Zoe vanGinhoven. I’m Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening.

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