Elton John and Brandi Carlile almost abandoned their new album

Almost as soon as Elton John began recording his latest album, he started blowing the whole thing up.

In 2023, he and his longtime lyricist Bernie Taupin reached out to singer/songwriter Brandi Carlile and proposed making an album together — in just 20 days.

“We went in with Andrew Watt (the producer), Brandi, Bernie Taupin and myself,” Elton John told Morning Edition host A Martínez. “We had nothing. But that’s what excited me. I didn’t want to know what was going to happen. I was wanting to be unprepared and have a big adventure.”

That “big adventure” became the new album Who Believes in Angels?

The project was unusual in more ways than one. It’s the first time Elton John ever let a camera crew document his writing and recording process. And what viewers see is: the first few sessions were disastrous.

The video also reveals something stunning. Even after all his success, Elton John still gets nervous.

“The fear led to me having self-doubt about my writing, about what the album should be like,” he says. “I was in pretty low spirits, kind of ornery for the first 5 or 6 days, to put it mildly. And a couple of times I thought, ‘I don’t know whether we should continue with this.’ But once it fell into place, it just went ahead like a rocket.”

In the end, Elton John called it “one of the greatest experiences that I’ve had in recent years in the studio.”

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

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Interview transcript

A Martínez: It sounds like there was a tense moment in the studio.

Brandi Carlile: There were tense moments. But, you know, he wears his heart on his sleeve, let’s put it that way. We joke about it because it was very intense — and it did look touch-and-go for a while. But I can’t think of anything more musical than just acting how you feel when you’re creating music. And that’s a complicated thing. But you hear it. You can hear it in the recording, and you don’t hear that kind of thing anymore because things can get really synthetic in studios, but not with Elton John there.

Elton John: And the frustrations that I had were mostly frustrations about my own ability to get the lyric right or the melody right or get the harmony right. Doubt is something you always have when you’re doing an album.

A Martínez: But wait a second: you’re Elton John! How do you have doubt about making music?

Elton John: You have to have doubt. I think every artist — whether they’re a painter or a composer or a dancer or a photographer — doubt is a part of the process. Am I doing the right thing? Is this the best I can do at this particular time?

When we started, I was frustrated about that. But then it all fell into place when Bernie gave me the lyrics to “The Rose of Laura Nyro” and “Little Richard’s Bible.” And then she wrote “Swing for the Fences.” Once we’d done those tracks, it was easy sailing.

If you don’t have doubt, then you shouldn’t be there because you’re coasting. You never should coast. I’ve never coasted and I never want to coast.

A Martínez: Brandi, did you have any doubts?

Brandi Carlile: Oh yeah, about myself. Just like Elton had doubts about himself. But the album was a leap of faith – of our friendship and each other’s musicality and whether or not those things would blend. You can’t have faith without doubt.

A Martínez: There was a point in that video, Brandi, where you said, “I’m having a hard time connecting with Elton.” What was going on there?

Brandi Carlile: Well, I was having a hard time connecting with Elton!

I was a little afraid at first. It took me a second to get strong. But one of the main things that was happening was: he was wanting to call it a day. He didn’t want to go and do the album. There were really sad things happening in the world, and he was thinking maybe it wasn’t a good time. And everybody else, including Bernie, was like, “This is fine. Elton’s just having a moment of doubt and insecurity.” But I respect Elton so much that I was like, “I want to honor this.” If he doesn’t want to do this right now, I want to pay attention to him because maybe there’s some wisdom in it.

And I’ll tell you a story: the first song that we wrote and recorded didn’t make the album, and it actually wasn’t that great of a song. When we came in on the second day and the producer played it back for us, I watched Elton do something I’ve never been brave enough to do. The song ended, and Elton looks at me and Bernie and Andrew and he goes, “I hate it, absolutely hate it.” And then he goes, “I won’t be continuing.”

I died in that moment. But then I thought to myself in the days after: Actually, it wasn’t good. Why wasn’t anybody brave enough to say they hate it except him? There’s something really pure about that reaction.

Elton John: Yeah, that was a typical Elton John-do-it-by-numbers type song. And I just was so upset at my boring chord sequence and the boring things that I did for that song. So I was being very critical of myself and I did hate it. It wasn’t the record I wanted to make. It sounded like it could have been a track on an album from 10, 20 years ago. I know that wasn’t for me.

Brandi Carlile: And if you hadn’t said that — and we had just kept on going along like that – we may have made a whole album like that. But you are the one that stopped that from happening.

A Martínez: Brandi, the song “Swing for the Fences” — I read that you felt like that was your gem that you were going to bring to this whole thing.

Brandi Carlile: It’s a love letter to LGBTQ youth. It is also a thank-you letter to Elton in some ways.

He really wanted me to write a rock and roll song. He really wanted it to be positive and uplifting and exciting. It was the only song that felt like an assignment to me, you know? And I just wanted him to love it so bad.

It’s the first song that I brought to him in the studio. And he did love it.

Elton John: I went, “Hallelujah! She finally got it! Hallelujah! This is what I’ve been wanting her to do for a long time.” It was like manna from heaven. I absolutely loved every second of it.

A Martínez: Elton, it seems like mortality comes up quite a bit on this album, either accepting the end of things or maybe fighting to enjoy the days we have left. Was that a theme you were consciously trying to include here?

Elton John: No, not really. The song that Bernie gave me, which is the last song I recorded [“When This Old World Is Done With Me”], I was halfway through the lyrics on the bus, and then I got to the chorus and found out what it was about. And then I broke down.

When this old world is done with me/

Just know I came this far/

To be broken up in pieces/

Scatter me among the stars/

When this old world is done with me/

When I close my eyes/

Release me like an ocean wave/

Return me to the tide. 

I think when you get to a certain age, you think about mortality. And if you have children and a family, you think about it. But I’m not a gloom-and-doom person. I think I have so much more time on this planet. I’m in good shape. I’m in good health. But it’s a time when we do think about what’s going to happen, how are they going to be if I’m not here? It’s just a human thought.

It’s an optimistic song in a way. If you can sing about it, you’re okay with it. It’s a part of life. And it’s important to sing about it. But I’ve never sang about it so meaningfully as this song. The lyrics touched me so much.

Brandi Carlile: It’s really interesting the way that Elton and Bernie are connected. When it came in through the printer and I held it in my hands for the first time, I looked at it and went, “I wonder how Bernie’s feeling in this moment,” you know? Elton and Bernie have been so connected throughout the years – Elton’s sung Bernie’s story so many times that I think that this lyric is a connection between the two of them. And it was really beautiful to watch that come out and see the connection between these two men play out in real time.

Elton John: Yeah, it’s just about as much about Bernie as it is about me. And that’s what made me even more upset, because we had the closest relationship anyone could have, as partners and songwriters and friends and allies. It’s so special that when you see it written down like that in black and white, you’re thinking, “I wonder which one he means? Does he mean me? Does he mean him?”

A Martínez: Was that song hard to sing?

Elton John: I broke down. Then I composed myself. But Andrew said, “No, that’s no good. You’re not in the right frame of mind singing today. You come in tomorrow when you’re fresh and you do the piano and vocal live at the same time.”

And that’s what you hear. I came in, did it first-take – piano and vocal live – and that’s what you hear.

A Martínez: Brandi, is there anything that came out of this process that maybe makes you a better songwriter?

Brandi Carlile: Oh, my God, don’t even get me started.

I was recently writing for a new album – a Brandi Carlile album — and missing Elton so much… but remembering that the Elton music I witnessed in the studio live is a well that I’m always going to be able to draw from.

I have rigidity about me. It’s not my favorite thing about myself. I have little rules and nuances and boundaries. And Elton – as a writer, a musician, and also just as a friend – he blows those boundaries apart. He just blasts right through them. And I always will because of this. Those rigidities, they’re gone.

I have them around other things now!

The audio version of this story was produced by Adam Bearne. The digital version was edited by Majd Al-Waheidi.