A note from Wild Card host Rachel Martin: When I spoke with Sterlin Harjo, he said he grew up never really seeing Native Americans like him on TV. But now, because of the series he created, Reservation Dogs, he says, “No one will ever know what that feels like again.”
Reservation Dogs ran for three seasons on Hulu and it told the story of four Native teenagers living on a reservation in Oklahoma trying to figure out how to navigate their lives after their close friend dies. It’s poignant and hilarious and echoes a lot of Harjo’s own life. He is Seminole and Muscogee and grew up in rural Oklahoma. He studied art and film at the University of Oklahoma and all his work is about the full human experience of Native people in this country.
Reservation Dogs was nominated for the Emmy for best comedy. Even though Harjo didn’t get that award, he got something better. He got to watch one of his young actors take up the mantle of representation for Native people himself.
D’Pharaoh Woon-A-Tai went to the Emmys with a red handprint painted on his face as a reminder of violence against Native women. In addition to that powerful message, Woon-A-Tai told Variety magazine that doing Reservation Dogs taught him “how important it is that we are the ones to tell our stories.”
Harjo did that. He’s inspired a new generation of Native actors, writers and directors to tell their own stories their own way. And it’s why I wanted him to join me for Wild Card.
This Wild Card interview has been edited for length and clarity. Host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly-selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.
Question 1: When have you felt overlooked?
Sterlin Harjo: I think my whole life. As a native kid, you feel that way because of the lack of seeing yourself in mainstream media. And, you know, Rez Dogs definitely changed that. My kids don’t know what it’s like to not see themselves on screen, and no one will ever know what that feels like again because of the show. So that’s pretty amazing.
You know, you accepted what you got when you were younger. Because it was like, “Oh, we’re the evil bad guys in the Western that say nothing but just scream and kill white women.” But now there’s other examples.
Rachel Martin: Do you remember a moment when you realized, “This is messed up?”
Harjo: I remember seeing a movie called The Seminole Wars or something, and I’m Seminole. My dad called me in to see it and it was a Western and they were all dressed like Lakotas. And at that point, I knew what Seminoles dressed like and I knew that wasn’t what we were. But it was kind of this moment of like, “Well it doesn’t matter. We’re being represented. Sure, let’s just enjoy it,” you know?
But, you know, there’s other good examples as well. One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest was a great example where Will Sampson, who’s from my tribe, plays the sort of mute Indian in it who actually isn’t mute, who’s tricking everyone. So it’s sort of a play on, I think, the stoic Indian who doesn’t talk and is mindless. And then you find out that he’s actually tricking people all along. That was kind of a good, inspirational representation, when I was young.
Question 2: What makes you irrationally defensive?
Harjo: OK, here’s a funny one. Not to throw any race under the bus or anything like that, but it happens to always be an older white woman that does this. I’ll be pushing a cart at Whole Foods. And my kids, you know, they’re kids. They run around and the lady will be pushing a cart fast and the kids run out in front of her and they stop and the woman huffs and puffs and, like, rolls her eyes.
Here’s a thing that I do – I feel like Larry David when I do this – but I point at the woman and say very loudly, “Guys, do you see what you’ve done? You’ve ruined her day. You’ve ruined this woman’s day and she’s never going to recover from it.” And I make sure they can hear me, and they shuffle off or whatever, you know.
Question 3: How often do you think about death?
Harjo: All the time. Way too much. I was just thinking about the line by the band The Turnpike Troubadours in a song where he says, “Everybody wants to be Hank Williams, but nobody wants to die.” And I think that it is definitely prevalent in all of my work because I think that there were people that died in my life when I was young that had a great impact on me that I just couldn’t figure out. I couldn’t figure out the mystery of that. I couldn’t figure out where they go. And what is this that I signed up for? And I’ve been exploring that ever since. Where’d they go?
Martin: One thing I appreciate about Reservation Dogs, is that they go to a lot of funerals. Like, I don’t think people go to enough funerals.
Harjo: I don’t think they do either. I grew up at them. I think they’re important. And it was one of the best times because I think that people are very honest with each other after someone dies. People that would normally not say, “I love you,” say I love you. There’s people in my family that maybe I had a falling out with or was not talking to for a moment, and you know, calling them might not work, but at a funeral, we’ll talk again. And I’ve seen that happen a lot with family coming together at funerals and sort of throwing out the past and moving forward.